American Hero Joe Horn: Pasadena Shootings Justifiable and Praiseworthy
Will Malven
11/16/2007
Friday afternoon, the 14th of November, 2007, 61 year old grandfather Joe Horn was working in his home when he heard glass breaking at his next door neighbor’s house. He investigated the sound and saw two men in the act of breaking into and then entering his neighbor's house. What happened next was a textbook example of how every American citizen should behave.
When Mr. Horn saw the two men breaking into his neighbor's house, he called 911 to alert the police. Over the next six or seven minutes, he conversed with the 911 operator as he waited for police to arrive. Mr. Horn was outraged at this act of brazen criminal behavior and rightfully so, would that every law-abiding citizen felt such outrage when a crime is being committed. Mr. Horn was absolutely determined that he was not going to allow these two criminals to escape and he told the 911 operator of his intention.
Having waited for the police to arrive, Mr. Horn then did what I would hope every citizen would do, he acted to defend his neighbor's property and very possibly his own. When he witnessed the perpetrators leaving the crime scene and it became apparent that the police would not arrive in time, Joe Horn grabbed up a pump shotgun and went outside to stop them and hold them for the police. He warned them not to move. They moved and he shot them.
Here is the Houston Chronicle’s article about the shooting:
Any society so cowed by their government that they are afraid to defend themselves, their property, and their neighborhood is no longer a free society. In this case these criminals were stopped by a man who refused to allow himself and his neighbor to become victims. They encountered a man who refused to live in a completely lawless society. We should all be angry that criminals feel perfectly safe in committing a crime like this. As Americans, we should not be forced to live in fear because some people don't respect the property of others.
Our population is increasing at an alarming rate, due in large part to a massive influx of people (illegal aliens) who feel no compunction at violating our nation’s laws to enter our country. If one uses the logic of Rudy Giuliani’s “broken window theory,” by looking the other way as we have been doing for decades as these law breakers violate the integrity of our borders, we are encouraging criminal behavior of a more serious nature.
The fact is that police forces across the nation are increasingly undermanned, over worked, and underpaid. It is apparent for all who will see that American citizens must begin to depend more upon their neighbors for security than on the police. The average response time in Houston to a “Priority One” (life threatening ) emergency call is now in excess of five minutes. This, as reported by Channel Two News:
Every action Mr. Horn took was textbook citizenship. Citizenship is not a state of being; it is a state of action. Citizens vote in elections, serve on juries, and help their neighbors when asked. Real citizens care enough about their communities to be willing to risk their lives to make sure their neighborhoods are safe for their children, their neighbor's children, the elderly, and all of those who are incapable of protecting themselves. Real citizens do not sit and let bad things happen out of fear of injury or legal action.
Our society is slowly devolving to a point where our justice system is more concerned with the rights of criminals than it is with the rights of law abiding citizens. Our judges appear to care more about how our criminal population is being treated than the fact that they are in prison for a committing criminal acts against the people those judges are elected to protect. Those to whom we have entrusted our domestic order and tranquility have become advocates of chaos rather than enforcers of order. Why should the American people be forced to endure living in a lawless society because the lawyers of the ACLU and a bunch of Leftist Judges believe that criminals’ rights supersede the rights of law-abiding citizens to be secure in their neighborhoods and homes?
What happened on Wednesday was both heroic and tragic. Mr. Horn’s actions were heroic. It was the courageous thing to do and it was the right thing to do. That these two men had to die is tragic, but their deaths were of their own choosing.
The criminals Dejesus and Ortiz were solely responsible for their own deaths. Mr. Horn was not looking for someone to shoot that day; he was minding his own business. It was the two perpetrators who were looking for trouble and unfortunately for their families, they found more trouble than they bargained for. We must never allow ourselves to forget, DeJesus and Ortiz were criminals and were caught in the act of committing a crime. Had they surrendered to Mr. Horn rather than ignore him, they would be alive today. Had they not been intent on breaking the law, they would be alive today.
Our Founding Fathers believed passionately in every man’s right to own and protect his property as well as his person by any appropriate means. They also believed in the right of people to protect their communities. That is precisely what Mr. Joe Horn did when he confronted Ortiz and DeJesus. The survival of our Republic depends on the citizens’ right to do so.
Our society has blessed us with lives of abundance and liberty due, in main part, to the laws we have passed which define how we are supposed to relate to each other. Those blessings also derive from the rights and liberties we claim as our inheritance from our "Creator" and from the traditions and laws handed down to us by our forefathers. Our freedoms and liberties have been bought and paid for many times over by the blood of our forefathers and our fellow citizens and to the extent that we allow our government to usurp those freedoms and liberties, we dishonor those who have gone before us.
Criminals should be afraid to commit crimes. They should live in terror that every time they go out to commit a crime, they will encounter a man like Joe Horn. When criminals are more afraid of committing a crime than they are in gaining from their brazenness, then crimes decrease. It has been proven time and again; the more likely it is that criminals believe that they will encounter a homeowner armed with a firearm; the less likely they are to attempt to enter that house. That is why those cities and states in which they have passed the most draconian gun laws have the highest violent crime rates and those which have enacted concealed carry laws and the castle doctrine, have the lowest violent crime rates.
The reaction from those on the Left was easily predictable. They are immediately more concerned with the deaths of two felons than they are with the fact that they were caught committing a crime. Once more we are shown an object lesson that Liberals are incapable of comprehending human nature. It is the same people who advocate tighter restrictions on gun ownership, who advocate an international policy of appeasement over confrontation. Once more we are shown why allowing Liberals to govern our society is dangerous for our citizenry.
When a society becomes so afraid that it surrenders its citizens’ rights to do exactly what Joe Horn did; when a society allows itself to be disarmed by its government and police are the only people in that society who are allowed to possess firearms, it is precisely at that moment that a free society becomes a “police state.”
Mr. Horn is not happy that he was forced to kill those two men. Their deaths will haunt him for a long time, but he should never doubt that what he did was right and justified. And as for those in our society who condemn him, they are wrong and unjustified in their criticism. Until they find themselves in the same situation and are forced to make the same decisions, perhaps they should withhold their judgment.
I don’t know if Messrs. Ortiz and DeJesus deserved to die for their crime, but once they made the decision to cross the line from citizen to criminal, once they chose to ignore Mr. Horn’s order to stop, they became responsible for their own fates.
I for one will pray for Mr. Horn, that he can find some solace in the fact that what he did was the right thing to do. It was and is what every good citizen should be prepared to do. He is a hero in the greatest traditions of our Founding Fathers.
Long Live Our American Republic!!!
*NOTE: I have provided a link to the relevant portion of the Texas Penal Code for what is considered justified self defense and defense of property on the "News and Commentary Page" right-hand column. You will be most interested in sections 9:42 and 9:43.
11/16/2007
Friday afternoon, the 14th of November, 2007, 61 year old grandfather Joe Horn was working in his home when he heard glass breaking at his next door neighbor’s house. He investigated the sound and saw two men in the act of breaking into and then entering his neighbor's house. What happened next was a textbook example of how every American citizen should behave.
When Mr. Horn saw the two men breaking into his neighbor's house, he called 911 to alert the police. Over the next six or seven minutes, he conversed with the 911 operator as he waited for police to arrive. Mr. Horn was outraged at this act of brazen criminal behavior and rightfully so, would that every law-abiding citizen felt such outrage when a crime is being committed. Mr. Horn was absolutely determined that he was not going to allow these two criminals to escape and he told the 911 operator of his intention.
Having waited for the police to arrive, Mr. Horn then did what I would hope every citizen would do, he acted to defend his neighbor's property and very possibly his own. When he witnessed the perpetrators leaving the crime scene and it became apparent that the police would not arrive in time, Joe Horn grabbed up a pump shotgun and went outside to stop them and hold them for the police. He warned them not to move. They moved and he shot them.
Here is the Houston Chronicle’s article about the shooting:
Nov. 15, 2007, 9:58PMOur forefathers believed that every citizen capable of handling and using a firearm could and should possess one. They also believed that it was the duty of every citizen to protect themselves and their communities. They expected men to intervene to prevent these crimes rather than cowering helplessly waiting for the police to arrive and watching helplessly as the criminals make good their escape because the police are can’t get there.
Shooting of theft suspects may test self-defense law
By RUTH RENDON and PEGGY O'HARE
Copyright 2007 Houston Chronicle
In a case legal experts say may "stretch the limits" of the state's self-defense laws*, a Pasadena man shot and killed two suspected burglars during a confrontation as they attempted to flee his neighbor's property Wednesday afternoon.
In the minutes before the fatal shootings, Pasadena police said the man called 911 and reported that he had heard glass breaking next door and saw two men entering the home through a window. Still on the phone with police, the man, believed to be in his 70s, saw the suspects leaving from the back of the home.
"I'm getting my gun and going to stop them," the neighbor told the dispatcher during the 2 p.m. call, according to Vance Mitchell, a spokesman for Pasadena police. "The dispatcher said, 'No, stay inside the house; officers are on the way.'
"Then you hear him rack the shotgun. The next sound the dispatcher heard was a boom. Then there was silence for a couple of seconds and then another boom."
Any society so cowed by their government that they are afraid to defend themselves, their property, and their neighborhood is no longer a free society. In this case these criminals were stopped by a man who refused to allow himself and his neighbor to become victims. They encountered a man who refused to live in a completely lawless society. We should all be angry that criminals feel perfectly safe in committing a crime like this. As Americans, we should not be forced to live in fear because some people don't respect the property of others.
Our population is increasing at an alarming rate, due in large part to a massive influx of people (illegal aliens) who feel no compunction at violating our nation’s laws to enter our country. If one uses the logic of Rudy Giuliani’s “broken window theory,” by looking the other way as we have been doing for decades as these law breakers violate the integrity of our borders, we are encouraging criminal behavior of a more serious nature.
The fact is that police forces across the nation are increasingly undermanned, over worked, and underpaid. It is apparent for all who will see that American citizens must begin to depend more upon their neighbors for security than on the police. The average response time in Houston to a “Priority One” (life threatening ) emergency call is now in excess of five minutes. This, as reported by Channel Two News:
Local 2 Investigates analyzed three years worth of police response times, breaking down Houston neighborhood by neighborhood, we discovered more and more parts of the city are waiting longer than five minutes for police to respond to these life-threatening, "priority one" calls.Ironically that news story was published just nine days prior to this shooting. Since “a burglary in progress” is not considered a life threatening call under ordinary circumstances, it is a safe bet that, short of Mr. Horn making his intention to intervene clear to the dispatcher, the police would have arrived 5-10 minutes or more after the criminals had left the crime scene and were well out of the neighborhood.
"What I hear from officers is we are short and could we get some help out here," outgoing Houston Police Officers’ Union president Hans Marticiuc said.
In 2004, police were taking longer than 5 minutes to respond to a third of Houston's neighborhoods. Two years later it was 43%. Through the first quarter of this year it was half the city.
"Any given shift you probably don't have more than 200 to 250 officers out on the street," Marticiuc said.
"For the entire city?" Arnold asked.
"Uh, huh," Marticiuc said.
Every action Mr. Horn took was textbook citizenship. Citizenship is not a state of being; it is a state of action. Citizens vote in elections, serve on juries, and help their neighbors when asked. Real citizens care enough about their communities to be willing to risk their lives to make sure their neighborhoods are safe for their children, their neighbor's children, the elderly, and all of those who are incapable of protecting themselves. Real citizens do not sit and let bad things happen out of fear of injury or legal action.
Our society is slowly devolving to a point where our justice system is more concerned with the rights of criminals than it is with the rights of law abiding citizens. Our judges appear to care more about how our criminal population is being treated than the fact that they are in prison for a committing criminal acts against the people those judges are elected to protect. Those to whom we have entrusted our domestic order and tranquility have become advocates of chaos rather than enforcers of order. Why should the American people be forced to endure living in a lawless society because the lawyers of the ACLU and a bunch of Leftist Judges believe that criminals’ rights supersede the rights of law-abiding citizens to be secure in their neighborhoods and homes?
What happened on Wednesday was both heroic and tragic. Mr. Horn’s actions were heroic. It was the courageous thing to do and it was the right thing to do. That these two men had to die is tragic, but their deaths were of their own choosing.
The criminals Dejesus and Ortiz were solely responsible for their own deaths. Mr. Horn was not looking for someone to shoot that day; he was minding his own business. It was the two perpetrators who were looking for trouble and unfortunately for their families, they found more trouble than they bargained for. We must never allow ourselves to forget, DeJesus and Ortiz were criminals and were caught in the act of committing a crime. Had they surrendered to Mr. Horn rather than ignore him, they would be alive today. Had they not been intent on breaking the law, they would be alive today.
Our Founding Fathers believed passionately in every man’s right to own and protect his property as well as his person by any appropriate means. They also believed in the right of people to protect their communities. That is precisely what Mr. Joe Horn did when he confronted Ortiz and DeJesus. The survival of our Republic depends on the citizens’ right to do so.
Our society has blessed us with lives of abundance and liberty due, in main part, to the laws we have passed which define how we are supposed to relate to each other. Those blessings also derive from the rights and liberties we claim as our inheritance from our "Creator" and from the traditions and laws handed down to us by our forefathers. Our freedoms and liberties have been bought and paid for many times over by the blood of our forefathers and our fellow citizens and to the extent that we allow our government to usurp those freedoms and liberties, we dishonor those who have gone before us.
Criminals should be afraid to commit crimes. They should live in terror that every time they go out to commit a crime, they will encounter a man like Joe Horn. When criminals are more afraid of committing a crime than they are in gaining from their brazenness, then crimes decrease. It has been proven time and again; the more likely it is that criminals believe that they will encounter a homeowner armed with a firearm; the less likely they are to attempt to enter that house. That is why those cities and states in which they have passed the most draconian gun laws have the highest violent crime rates and those which have enacted concealed carry laws and the castle doctrine, have the lowest violent crime rates.
The reaction from those on the Left was easily predictable. They are immediately more concerned with the deaths of two felons than they are with the fact that they were caught committing a crime. Once more we are shown an object lesson that Liberals are incapable of comprehending human nature. It is the same people who advocate tighter restrictions on gun ownership, who advocate an international policy of appeasement over confrontation. Once more we are shown why allowing Liberals to govern our society is dangerous for our citizenry.
When a society becomes so afraid that it surrenders its citizens’ rights to do exactly what Joe Horn did; when a society allows itself to be disarmed by its government and police are the only people in that society who are allowed to possess firearms, it is precisely at that moment that a free society becomes a “police state.”
Mr. Horn is not happy that he was forced to kill those two men. Their deaths will haunt him for a long time, but he should never doubt that what he did was right and justified. And as for those in our society who condemn him, they are wrong and unjustified in their criticism. Until they find themselves in the same situation and are forced to make the same decisions, perhaps they should withhold their judgment.
I don’t know if Messrs. Ortiz and DeJesus deserved to die for their crime, but once they made the decision to cross the line from citizen to criminal, once they chose to ignore Mr. Horn’s order to stop, they became responsible for their own fates.
I for one will pray for Mr. Horn, that he can find some solace in the fact that what he did was the right thing to do. It was and is what every good citizen should be prepared to do. He is a hero in the greatest traditions of our Founding Fathers.
Long Live Our American Republic!!!
*NOTE: I have provided a link to the relevant portion of the Texas Penal Code for what is considered justified self defense and defense of property on the "News and Commentary Page" right-hand column. You will be most interested in sections 9:42 and 9:43.
What do you think?
To leave your opinion click on the word "COMMENT(S)" below
posted by Will Malven at 1:57 PM
27 Comments:
yikes. extending the death penalty (as decided by the average citizen) to petty theft is not exactly what the country needs right now.
good job, joe.
Not as decided by a citizen, as decided by the perps.
All Joe Horn did is exercise his right as a citizen to stop the criminals from escaping with the loot. This was not just "petty theft," this was "breaking and entering" and "felony theft."
Once he challenged them and told them to stop the ball, as they say, was in their court.
Never forget the Petit family murders in Cheshire Connecticut. Those two criminals both had long rap-sheets for burglary...nothing any more serious...they broke into the Dr. Petit's house, forced him to withdraw money from an atm, and beat him about the head with a baseball bat. They then proceded to beat and rape his wife and their two daughters Hayley-17, and Michaela-11 over a period of several hours. They then set fire to the house killing the wife and both daughters.
Petty theft?...There is no such thing as a small criminal offense. Burglary on any scale is a crime of violation and of violence.
2 slime-bags break in to a house with the intention of burglarizing it. Who knows what might have happened if a woman was there alone. Raped? Murdered? Maybe so, maybe not.
I personally have had it with low-life's who commit crime. They get arrested and are out of jail in no time. Then they go right back out into the streets and do it all over again. Well these 2 won't anymore. Eliminate enough of these losers and the rest will think it over. Eliminate most of them and problem solved!
Sending support for Joe Horn from across the Gulf of Mexico, Jacksonville, FL!
Not only was Joe justified, but I applaud him.
Those criminals, if caught, would end up in the revolving door of our justice system. Spend a few months in jail lifting weights and getting ready for their next run-in with the law. Not only would they waste the time of our courts, but they would waste our tax dollars as they rot in prison (even if for a short period of time). Hell, they ought to write Joe a check for the cost he's saved the taxpayers of Texas.
Thanks Joe, for taking a stand. For giving the criminals something to fear, rather than allowing yourself to be engulfed by fear.
Go Joe Horn. I hope I would have the determination of Joe, should this happen in my neighborhood.
Thanks.
SAF
USCCA
Yes, yes, YES! Right on.
First, thanks for the intelligent alternative to the bleeding-heart Chronicle.
Secondly, I get really pissed when I think about my hard-earned money being thrown away in the court system on pathetic human waste. Joe provided a great service to our state.
Question:
I've read the stories of protestors demonstrating in front of Joe's house. So I started wondering, how can those of us who APPRECIATE what Joe did show our support more publicly? Last I checked, free-speech isn't limited to rabble-rousers and burdens to society. I think the rest of us are protected under the constitution as well, right? Anyone looking to rally in support of Joe, count me in!
Rod
Houston, TX
Regarding Joe Horn behavior and his right to kill a citizen braking the law.
If I see a redneck speeding down my street in his pickup truck endangering the lives of my kids, would I have the right to shoot him and protect my family?
Hmmm...thats a tough one...maybe not a redneck, but for sure if it was some snotty nosed, froggy wannabe, gutless, canuck socialist.
They weren't shot because they were "breaking the law," hockey puck, they were shot because they refused to stop when they were told to by a man with a shotgun leveled at them while they were tresspassing on his property, following the commission of a violent felony.
Burglary is a crime of violence and violation. If you've ever had your property broken into, you do a lot of thinking as you are sweeping up the glass and looking for what items were stolen. You seldom sleep quite as peacefully at night as you did before your property was violated.
Oh and as to your smart aleck question. The answer is "yes!" If you felt at the time that your children were in iminent peril. If say they were riding their decorated bicycles in a Fourth of July parade, or were cued up in the street for the local ice cream truck.
You Liberal wusses really crack me up, with your sophomoric, sophistic, "clever" questions. The truth is I would never recommend that a moron like you do so. Since you would probably hold the shotgun wrong way 'round and blow your own head off...ON second thought...
Joe Horn, you are a real patriot.
My car was broken into once when I was in college. I'd left it parked on the street for a few days and found it with a broken passenger window and two holes where the front speakers used to be. I had to drive it back to my home town at night in the cold with no stereo.
Yeah, I'd kill two people for that ultimately negligible inconvenience which I've since proven strong-minded enough not to be traumatized by it. Because I'm freaking nuts.
Breaking and entering a person's house is not the same as having your car burgled...had that happen as well...not even in the same league. A car burglar knows that there is no one in the car. A B&E burglar has no idea whether or not he might encounter someone. It is a violent crime of violation and if you don't believe that they are/were capable of worse, then you are a fool.
Never forget the Petit family murders in Cheshire Connecticut. Those two criminals both had long rap-sheets for burglary...nothing any more serious...In fact they were on parole because they were "just burglars. They broke into the Dr. Petit's house, forced him to withdraw money from an atm, and beat him about the head with a baseball bat to the point that he was unrecognizable and left him for dead. They then proceded to beat and rape his wife and their two daughters Hayley-17, and Michaela-11 over a period of several hours. They then set fire to the house killing the wife and both daughters.
Those are your burglars for you. Too bad they didn't have a Joe Horn for a neighbor, they might still be alive and whole. That's pretty "freaking nuts" isn't it, pinhead.
First thing Mr. Mavel, calling me a snotty nosed, froggy wannabe, gutless canuck socialist… flattery will get you nowhere (maybe apart from the gutless part...). I’m just trying to make a very simple point, but maybe you need a little help getting it. If you give to every Dick and Harry the right to go around and shoot people dead when they see them doing something THEY judge is worth killing for, that’s leading to anarchy. You praise this guy action and some loony will get the message that he has the right to go around and apply his justice… and that just might be a father who’s sick and tired to see a moron speeding in an area where his children are playing.
I don’t expect you to agree, just think what message you’re sending. If everybody has sound judgement and uses it wisely, even I would agree with you. But it’s often not the case and that’s the reason we have police and justice system. You don’t know anyone owning a gun that is not to bright? I just don’t believe that stealing a TV or radio or whatever property they where stealing was right… but certainly not worth the death penalty applied by an old frustrated men who evidently, by the 911 call, was way to eager to go out there and shoot them dead…
If you're getting any of this "Darel", go and try explaining it to your other brother Darel.
By the way Will... what's the point of puting up a forum if it's to insult anybody that doesn't think like you. Your calling yourself a publisher and in your description you state: "...That freedom and liberty are the most precious of rights guaranteed by the Constitution, and were given to all men by God"
I'll let you figure out by yourself what's not clicking with your attitude... But then again, if you need help, I'll be there for you.
Robert Monroe
First Robert, having an opinion is your right. Having that opinion criticized or mocked is a risk you run when you make that opinion known. Somehow the double edged nature of having and expressing one's opinion escapes most Liberals. They seem to believe that only they have the right to criticize someone's opinion and what they say must be taken without exception.
In other words..."Don't dish it out if you can't take it."
Second you need to develope a thicker skin if you are going to make snide remarks on my webpage. Using the term "redneck" was an intentional choice, intended to provoke an emotional response...since I don't take any such comments personally, I expect anyone of making such a comment to be able to handle an in kind response.
If I couldn't handle such comments, I would not have been able to maintain this website as long as I have, as Liberals are very prone to using personal attack as a means of diverting attention away from the topic at hand.
Lastly, if the humor of the epithets I use escapes you then you are, as are most Liberals, entirely lacking any sense of perspective or sense of humor when discussing topics which impinge on your core beliefs. If I truly wished to insult you I could one, ignore you, or two, devise far more personal and hard-hitting attacks than those I chose.
I am in the process of writing a piece which will fully explain my reasoning and thoughts on the Joe Horn issue. It will be up later today, short of some event here at home preventing it...I do have to watch the LSU game, but that doesn't start until 2:30 our time...perhaps I will beat that time, but I have a lot of references to cite.
You liberals... the problem with liberals... as are most Liberals...
Your generalizations are useless and are not making any point other than, exactly as you stated, diverting attention away from the topic at hand. I can bring this to your level. Since you conservatives don’t have the brains to carry a debate without insulting or using pointless generalizations that don’t have anything to do with the subject, we’ll stop it here….
Maybe I’m to demanding… If you had the brains to begin with, you probably wouldn’t be a conservative. But then we’d have nothing to debate… it‘s the egg or the chicken thing…
Robert
First Robert,
I did respond directly to your question. The fact that you are unable to comprehend my answer is your problem.
Let me repeat my response so that your tiny Liberal brain can potentially grasp the concepts.
They-were-not-shot-because-they-burglarized-someone's-house.
They-were-shot-because-they-refused-to-stop-when-Joe-told-them-to.
Is that slow enough for your Liberal brain to comprehend?
Joe was making a citizen's arrest. I know the concepts of freedom and liberty are alien to a nation that was given its independence and is still part of a Commonwealth. You never had to fight for independence. You are sheep, we are Lions. We won our independence with great sacrifice. We know the value of our freedoms and Liberties. We don't believe in cowering in our homes while the almighty state tells us what to do and when to do it. We are not required to rely on the police to secure our neighborhoods. We have not surrendered our right to keep and bear arms, we have strengthened that right.
We (at least we Conservatives) know that there is no such thing as absolute safety and that no society can ever guarantee your safety, no matter how much they restrict your freedoms.
We know that the risk of death is worth the rewards of liberty and freedom, that only an armed society can truly be a free society, and that we are our brothers keeper...and protector.
Ortiz and DeJesus made two decisions which cost them their lives. The first decision was to commit a crime. The second decision was to refuse to surrender when Joe Horn told them to stop. Had Ortiz and DeJesus made the correct choice on either of those two occasions, they would still be alive today.
You blame the defender, I blame the criminal...for me that is an easy choice.
You challenge my intellect because I am a Conservative, yet it is you who are incapable of seeing that living by permission of the state is slavery and living in a state in which the power resides with the people, not the state is freedom. This is not a very challenging concept. The fact that you are incapable of comprehending it speaks to your intellect.
To the last courageous anonymous poster, I deleted your post here because it is duplicated in the comments section of the latest post.
Only copy of one irrational rant per person allowed.
Sounds like to me you need therapy.
Hey Will--
When I read your comment regarding the "double-edged nature" of expressing your opinion, it made me think of the whole Dixie Chicks debacle. Remember how it was okay for them to bad-mouth our President, but then people were outraged when paying ex-fans publicly burned their CDs and so-forth? I'm no poly-sci major, but I'm pretty sure the First Amendment actually does apply to all of us.
Also, seems like you're making a genuine effort to communicate with a liberal here (I'm sure you have your reasons). I've never had much success with this myself, but there is a book, "How to Talk to a Liberal (If You Must): The World According to Ann Coulter."
Maybe you'll find some helpful information.
Good luck.
Rod
Read it, but I try to be a little polite...on the otherhand when you get irrational rants like the one above it's difficult not to make fun of them.
Thanks for the comment, I do it for fun. They make me laugh, because their reactions and responses are so predictable. Anger, outrage, distortion and lies. What more can a Conservative ask for?
Duplicated irrational ranting post by bleeding heart Joe Hater deleted.
Begining with:
Not going to argue with you Will. You accuse and say I'm blaming the victims. Not so.. You TWIST things to cloud what I am really trying to saying. The pen indeed is mightier than the sword.
See the editorial "More on the Joe Horn Shootings," last comment If you really want to read his whine.
As usual the Liberal media will turn these thugs into victims. They will put the grieving family on TV and the family will say they had a trouble upbringing.They were abused when they young, got involved with wrong crowd,were misunderstood all the time. They were finally turning their lives around,but they were gunned down in cold blood. If you believe that crock, I have a bridge you could buy.
Hopefully, Paw-Paw starts a civil war with his act of heroism. Or at least a decent riot.
It'll be a nice change of pace.
Will
You crack me up. The perps were shot in the back. How that is admirable is beyond my understanding. I do enjoy your ad hominem attacks on anyone that doesn't kiss your ass. It makes for an awesome blog!
It's Nice to see the 'real' Americans (unlike REAL TV), defending themselfs against the globalist inbred elite's planned imported agents of terror as our Founding Fathers planned.
I'd love to buy him a beer.
If a police officer had shot the two suspects in the back as Mr. Horn did, the public would be calling for his head on a stick.
Tell me, where do you draw the line?
I would correct that. If a police officer had shot the two suspects in the back as Mr. Horn did, a certain segment of our population, the bleeding heart Liberals who seem to favor the rights of criminals more than the rights of victims, would be calling for his head on a stick.
The people who rallied in support of Joe Horn would rally to the support of said policeman. The people who have left messages of support here would be behind the policeman just as they are Mr. Horn.
I draw the line at crimes of violation. I draw the line at those who break the law with impunity, who invade anothers home and take their sense of security along with their possessions. I have always believed that police should be able to shoot a fleeing criminal. I also believe that they ought to shoot those who cause high-speed chases following a crime. They put the public at risk in doing so and if, by shooting them, the police can lessen that threat, then they ought to shoot.
I am not a compassionate person when it comes to protecting our neighborhoods and our homes. I also don't give a rat's a$$ if the criminal is a 15 year old juvi out for some jollies with his fellow gang members.
I wouldn't support his cold blooded execution by the state or by any citizen, but in a situation such as this, I have no problem with the death of these two habitual criminals who made a habit of preying on others.
Ortiz and Torres got what they deserved. They bear full responsibility for their fates, no one else. They were where they had no business being, engaged in an act they had no business pursuing, and when challenged they did the stupidest thing you can do. They didn't listen to a man with a 12 guage shotgun leveled at them. They came here illegally, on forged papers.
They will victimize no more legal immigrants and burgle no more houses. If they had surrendered and Horn had shot them, then I would be on the opposite side of this issue; they chose unwisely.
Their choice, their fault. Period, end of story. The more often this happens, the fewer crimes will occur in our neighborhoods. I would like to see this happen a dozen ofr so times in Houston. Maybe then our people could walk the streets at night without looking over their shoulders.
If you are looking for a nice guy, when it comes to treatment of criminals, you are looking in the wrong place.
I suggest you look in the Left-wing moonbat blogs. Liberal idiots love to show compassion for criminals. Conservatives want to see them punished severely.
That's why Joe Arpaio, Sheriff of Maricopa County, Arizona has become a celebrity across America. Chain gangs and pink underwear. Balogna sandwiches and tent cities for housing. Make prison miserable enough and people tend to have a desire to stay out of them.
Good Job Joe Horn!!
Post a Comment
Links to this post:
Create a Link
<< Home